23 thoughts on “A New Patch Faker Paradise Comes Into Focus”

1. It’s really unfortunate that someone like you can sit behind a computer and anonymously try to tear down someone’s reputation without any evidence whatsoever. You pick out a handful of cards and try to tear down someone with positive feedback of 10,500+. Look at the sheer volume of cards he buys and sells; how many of those do you think are “fake” patches?

   I’ve known this seller for more than 30 years. We started collecting cards together in 1987 and doing shows together in 1996. He’s been a reputable dealer around Colorado and online since the mid-90s, and you’re trying to tear down the reputation he’s worked very hard to build. I know for a fact he pulled that Gronkowski from a box he bought from another reputable Denver dealer. And every single one of those cards you pointed out here purchased on eBay. If you’d take the time to look back over his feedback, you’d find the auctions where he purchased those cards and see that every single one of those looks exactly as it does when he purchased it. If you’re going to come out here and try to tear down someone’s reputation, the burden of proof falls on you to prove that he’s selling fake cards.

   Are any of the patches fake? With the volume of memorabilia cards out there, who knows? But I can guarantee you if they have been altered at any point, he isn’t responsible for it. I remember back in 2006 he won a 2005 Absolute Tools of the Trade Jumbo Jersey of Corey Dillon. When he got it in the mail, it was obviously faked. Did he stick it back on eBay to recover his money? No, he threw it in the trash. His exact words to me were, “I’m not gonna rip somebody else off.”

   If you want to run a service of faked cards and have the scans and serial numbers to prove it, fine. But you’re doing nothing but trying to hurt the business of someone who has worked YEARS to build a reputation as a reputable dealer and collector.

2. First off, the cards I posted are definitely not real. Did he do it himself? It doesnt matter, he is selling them, and they are not real.

   I get this excuse or that excuse “oh, I didnt know it was fake!’ Bull. You sold it under your name, and I am not going to sit here and say its okay because you didnt know.

   I didnt say he was the one doing the fakes, and have edited the post to make sure that is known more clearly, but he is selling a good bunch of cards that are obviously not real.

3. Important to note: Under the listing for the Ichiro 1/1 card his listing states “I specialize in some of the rarest sports cards on ebay, mostly pack pulled autographs and memorabilia cards.” and “UNBELIEVABLE PACK PULLED FRESH GAME USED CARD THAT YOU MAY ONLY SEE ONCE IN A LIFETIME!!!” – If this card wasn’t pulled from a pack, and he bought it over ebay, this is clearly an attempt to make potential buyers think the card is authentic. If a seller with a 10,000+ rating says a card is pack pulled by himself it should hold some credibility. If it’s not packed pulled by the seller, I think it suggests the seller knew it was a fake and was attempting to cover it up and make the sell anyway.

4. Honestly, why people still buy these fake patches is beyond me. Anyone who defends these sellers of fakes needs to get their head examined. Gellman is right about the patches being fake and people need to educate themselves on the obvious differences. On the fake Mike Vike logo tag, it says game worn jersey. It mentions nothing about logo tags.

5. FYI Brother the certified with the laundry tag is real. I have seen 3 different ones numbered /50 pulled on blog since the release.
   Also The Ultimate ray lewis triple patch I think Snyper had one that was pulled even better then that

   -wheels

6. yeah this is a joke, you call every card that isnt in your posession a fake, you know how many of those triple threads i have seen with the stupid cool base tags, dozens, i have pulled them, i even pulled one from Topps debut with the full freakin allstar tag in a card #199.

   you havent proved shit, why because some other monekys on another board agree, you need something to type and gossip about to stir up some shit, you freakin morons who makes these post act like the people who are spending this kind of money dont know what they are buying, get a clue, dude i have forgot more about this hobby than you could ever post with your assumptions, and i am sure most of the people putting put the money for these patches real or fake, no more than you to, you and that dumb fat loser joelem on youtube, i cant even count how many real cards that loser called out with legit sellers, he got woke up, the hard way

   I own a Bob Gibson from triple threads that is even sicker with the old 70s rawlings tag and puts this Palmer to shame, 100% pack pulled, but i guess i better never post it because i will be ruining the hobby, because its #9 and not 1

   The thing that kills me about you guys is you think people give a shit about supposed game used, hahaha, these companies who are the ones ruining the hobby arent even using the real stuff, all these post and you guys still cant figure it out they arent buying it because its game used they are buying it because it is unique and tight ass patch, the card matters, the stamping and auto,

   I will guarantee you you put a what you call a real white patch from a 400.00 box of exquiste of sam bradford, and 3 others with the reebok logo and each head, and you have no idea where they came from wether they were pack pulled back doored or fake, let me know which one your stuck with at the end of the day

   Dont get me wrong i see what you are trying to do as far as collectors that it does matter to, and i like your blog, I check it daily, but this crap with calling someone out who sells patches or decides to dump a collected patch collection over yrs is a joke, you ever been to a card show, the patches are endless to purchase, I am in the tristate area and legitly could go to 3 different shows a weekend, probably more, with patches galore, it would have you guys going apeshit for days with post and theories.

   I cant wait to put you on the list when you decide to sell your great peterson collecton, MY GOD, theres know way one person could have all those without making them, call the police, gellmans a patch faker,

7. I think it is very hard to determine a fake just by an Ebay post. I have seen real patches just as good or better than these. I think I have to give the seller the benefit of the doubt because he has sold over 10,000 cards and has a feedback rating of 99.9%. If he is selling fakes then they are the best fakes ever. It is possible that he has this many nice patches, because he looks to deal in high volumes and high end cards. It would be one thing if he had an Ebay score of 200 and only had 20 cards listed on Ebay and all were sick patches. This is not my specialty but I think we shouldn’t accuse unless we know 100% and have proof.

8. The Ichiro and Palmer were purchased from a guy who fits your description exactly. They arent real.

   Here is a link to an album that shows all cards sold by the seller it was purchased from. Interesting how all these cards are done the same way. Also interesting that this seller claims they were pack pulled. How is that possible if he bought them on eBay weeks earlier?

   http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v671/mrwhitesox30/Ebay/Card%20Scans%20From%20Ebay/steelerswheel71/?start=all

   Each of these pictures were pulled from actual auctions.

   To those who wonder, you fake a triple threads card, or any diecut window card, by splitting it down the middle on the manufacturer’s seam and gluing it back together. Its pretty easy.

9. what does that have to do with anything, oooooh some clown is saving pics in a photobucket, so that means they are all fake.

   So if i start a photobucket when you start to sell off all your petersons, because they are all sick patches and each time you post one up i put it in my bucket that means i have the legimacy to say they are fake, tell everyone your a patch maker and trash your account.

   but wait, I forgot, its ok for you to have 3 sick peterson logos, but this guy or anyone for that matter cant have gathered 3 sick ichiro cards to sell over time

   mrwhitesox is a douchebag, not as a person or what he claims he is trying to do, but calling out alot of legit and good accounts with theories and assumptions of someone who decides to invest and flip or dump a collection of tight patches, in my eyes labels it right there. I have watched him just as much as he watches everyone eles, yeah all the patches he has sold over time were are real, lol, no thats funny

   I tell you what since you and all these theorist claim its so easy to split a card without being detected in anyway, please show us, i will be glad to supply the cards, how many you need, for real, i would love to have this proven other than these stupid posts

   I have news for you when triple threads came out there were TONS of cards #9 18 27 that had sick tag patches as monkey topps didnt consider them patches as they are heavy silkscreen tags that were just cut up with the jersey, the only actal laundry tags that were saved for specifics was the All Star tag for 1/1 booklets, and this is not a theory a FACT. They even had tons of allstar event patches in tons of cards that arent labeled allstar relics. PLEASE GET OFF THE #ing dictates great patches

   Its amazing that this clown with all his pics, calling eveyone out, not one of them has a negative feedback,

   I know what the response will be from you, mrwhitesox and a few others you deem to be the only ones in the hobby with any knowledge because you have 2000 useless posts on freedom means you know everything, will say they are rc buyers and dont know, HA,

   yeah its everyday then that these so called unimformed RC buyers you claim just appear and start dropping 3-400 1750 on ichiro cards everyday, lol get a clue there are no misinformed buyers, my god there are post from you guys on this than there are cards, like i said in my other post,

   NOBOBY CARES about freaking game used except about 1/10th of you repeated post makers who still belive the companies are using true game worn stuff all the time just because its stated on the back. THEY want a tight patch, with a legit auto and #ing

   These fakers as you call them moreless helped save the hobby somewhat and finally got the companies to step up and put the patches in the cards that shouldve been there in the first place with the outrageous prices today,

   As sick as this sounds do you know that these patches have even helped increase book values and you claim it hurts the hobby, again I laugh, you take 50 Tebow SP Authentics on ebay and say 5 or 6 get in these fakers hands along with a few other super tight patches that peak at 400+ then average it out along with the others 180 selling price, instead of beckett booking it at 250 it comes out at 350

   Your blog is good and the one scamwatch tag you have is awesome and has all the info someone needs, ontop of the weekly articals and updates are awesome as well,

   but sitting here grabbing info from other message boards with assumptions and theories and calling everyone out who sells one patch 10 or 50 patches is a faker and out to screw people without any proof is just retarded, i have seen your collection along with alot of other of these post makers who show off alot of to good to be true cards as well, get the hint

   now you want to state that some guy post some serious patches on a weekly basis and do your homework for buying, thats professional and the way ot should be stated

10. Dude, if you think they are real, thats fine. After seeing the evidence, and based on my experience, I am pretty much certain they are fake. You want to buy, its all you.

    BTW, what Peterson logos do I have? I wish I did have a few, but I dont even have one let alone 3. Plus, even if one came up that I wasnt 100 sure was real, I wouldnt buy it without checking seller history and doing homework. The overwhelming situation here looks like the guy who sold these cards to the current seller has quite a few cards that I would say are fake, with or without your blessing. I have my opinions, and I went and looked at the auctions. This was just a handy place to show them all in one area. I could post the links to the actual auctions, but it would take more time than I have to gather. Here, this guy did all the work. That’s the bottom line. All those pictures represent auctions.

11. Point is, Gellman, you say “here are some of the obvious ones he’s responsible for” and you list a ray rice sp, whereas, MANY of these rice sp.’s legitimately came with ravens logos. Sure, some are fake, but nowhere close to all of them. The Ray Lewis, unless you have 100% proof it’s fake, some of them had sick patches… Yet you claim both of these are obvious fakes. Same with the Percy sp, some of these had a two color reebok swatch. What if I pulled one of these cards and you said mine was fake ? It’s just not fair, the generalization, and the matter of fact way you go about calling everything fake a seller has. It’s wrong. You’re scaring buyers, collectors, dealers, investors, everyone. You’re hurting this hobby. If you would like to say, it’s my opinion, based on what I’ve seen, that these patches are questionable, that’s fine. But don’t try to make it seem like a 100% fact that when you, almighty blogger Gellman, says something, that it’s true. You don’t know for sure. Stop acting like you do. You don’t support this hobby. You buy 10 pc cards a year and two topps chrome fb boxes. People are trying to make a living on this hobby, and your know it all, matter of fact-ness about fake autos/ patches is hurting the market and scaring buyers off.

12. In your first response Gellman, you say “the cards I posted are definitely not real”. How can you prove this ? A legitimate writer/ blogger/ journalist isn’t going to say something like this that he cannot prove. The ray rice could certainly be real. The gronkowski could be real. The ray bourque, you can’t even spell his name, and you’re not really even familiar with hockey- the card has mostly jersey, legit stitching, and a small piece of some bizarre logo patch. That card could be real. Unless you have 100% dead on before/after scans you shouldn’t blog/write “the cards I posted are definitely not real”. Why would you want to even say that ? It makes you look bad because you’re not proving what you’re saying, and you’re hurting a hobby I assume you care about… It’s just kind of odd that you feel like you have to nail every cards balls to the wall and just say ALL these cards are fake. Yes, some may, and some may not.

13. I’ll speak to the Harvin SP Authentic patch for what its worth. If there are no before an after photos that dispute the authenticity, I’d say the card is authentic. Based upon the reebok logo, its either authentic or whomever altered the card used a game issued or used Vikings jersey, which wouldn’t be cheap. The reebok logo in the card can only be found on game used or issued jerseys. Unless you found one of those cheap, combined with the cost of the card, there really wouldn’t be room to make money on a altered card anyway.

14. Tyler and Steve Mchugh need to get some common sense. The majority of these patches are fake because they are too good to be true and you know that saying. If it seems too good to be true it is. It is not a bad idea to exercise a little caution. I am sure this seller knows they are fake and is getting rid of them. Gellman is right on calling these fake. They are too good to be true and there was never this much ravens logo patches on ebay. Plus, on the Mike Vick laundry tag, it says game worn jersey, not game worn laundry tag. On a fake patch, it will have a patch, but say game worn jersey instead of game worn patch.

15. Common sense ? Without proof, why is it needed to call everthing fake if you don’t know for sure ? The seller looks reputable, some of the cards/ patches may be questionable, but you cant say 100% that all of these cards are fake. Not only has it not been proven, its not likely. Also, there are a plethora of legitimate patch/ logo cards from many (mostly older) products that simply say “game worn JERSEY”. Simply put Ryan, you don’t fully know what you’re talking about.

16. Actually, you don’t know what you are talking about. You must be a blinded beckett collector. Beckett blinds collectors from the all the scams and fakes out there. I only call a card fake when I know something is not right with it, there is a scan of the unchanged card, or the red flags go off. Common sense can go a long way, plus always do your research before buying any high dollar card. Not likely, come on. If the red flags go off for an experienced collector like Gellman, something is wrong.

17. There are tons of red flags there. But you can’t prove anything. Absolutely nothing. Without smoking gun before and after pics this is all speculation, and all of this is scaring the beejeezus out of people and hurting this great hobby. If you have proof, post it. If not, then don’t talk to me. try taking someone to court over this, or getting authorities involved. They will laugh at you. Because you have no proof. Some of these conspiracy theories and fake patch stories are completely true. But if you can’t prove it, sorry. It holds no weight. 90% of all of this is jealousy and ignorance. Gellman isn’t any sort of hobby genius. He doesn’t set up, or even go to national level shows. He collect Minnesota Vikings and Twins cards. He has no clue what is going on behind the scenes with mega thousand dollar deals, dealers, and very unscrupulous card company employees where the almighty dollar rules. This industry and hobby is very fragile. If you want to try to protect people from scams, fine. But make sure what you’re saying is just opinion and you don’t have proof to back it up. Dont say ” all of these cards are fake ” unless you can prove it. It just makes whoever is saying that look like a know it all idiot if you don’t have irrefutable proof to back up your claims.

18. Also, it’s is FACT that there are sometimes multi color/logo patch cards on cards that simply say “game worn jersey” on the front. Again, it’s mostly older products, most are from VERY old products when game used cards were in their infancy and before patch faking was even a real problem/issue. Yes, now, and for quite a few years most companies, most cards discern between game used jersey / game worm patch, etc. Some even say game worn number patch, or letter patch, or laundry tag, but that always wasn’t the case for 100% of sports card history. Point being, anyone who says “well it says game used jersey on the front of the card and there is a part of a patch on the swatch, this is 100% fake” doesn’t know about the entire history of game used cards and all of the different products game used cards ave been in since 1996. Sure, most of the time when a multi color patch/logo is in a card that simply says “game used/game worn jersey” the card is fake. But not all of the time. I can’t standcwhen people say that, they don’t know what they’re talking about, period. I can recall donruss/leaf/playoff products from the late nineties specifically where this is the case.

19. Tyler,

    Lets say my Grandfather gave me a ball signed by Mickey Mantle. I send it to one Authentication service and they say it is legit.

    I send it to another and they say it’s a fake.

    How do I prove either one of them right? What gives either one of them the right to hold an opinion either way on this ball without “proof”?

    By your standard, I would have to have Mickey vouch for it from the grave. Or at the very list have a picture of him signing the ball in front of my Grandfather. Anything short of that is just someone’s opinion. No?

    The Authentication Services would argue that it is experience that gives them the authority to label the ball real or fake. Does that mean that they never make a mistake? No. It just means that through their experience, they lower the chance that a mistake is made.

    Same hold true here. Say what you want about Gellman (and you have said a lot), but you have to at least allow for the faact that he has followed forgeries in the card industry as close as anyone in recent years. That would give him a certain amount of experience.

    Does that mean that he doesn’t get one wrong on occasion? No. But it means that his experience sure does mean that he gets the vast majority of them right.

    In the cases above, I tend to agree with Gellman for what it’s worth. And if one or all of them happen to be real, then that’s a good thing for whoever buys it. I just won’t be taking that risk.

    Real or fake, it doesn’t excuse the seller from making false claims about where he obtained the cards. This leave a false impression of the cards authenticity. A convenience the seller definitely knows.

20. Its hard to prove anything without facts, I totally agree but some people have the proof , If you want proof of some fakes go on you tube and search this guy joemlm, he has many videos of fakes, scammers and PROOF, pictures of the actual cards before they were altered by scammers on ebay. My opinion and I am just an average JOE collector no expert at all but the card companies should do a scan of all these patch/jersey cards when they are made so a person can see what the card really was or is before they spend $100’s of dollars on a fake or altered card. Because there are many scammers out there totally buying cheap jerseys and altering cards and scamming people on ebay and everywhere and ebay really doesnt care cuz they make a ton of money on it and if the people are banned they just create a new account. Check out JOEMLM on youtube there is a video up now on a scammer with the Proof you are looking for..

21. I know I’m late to the party, but I think the bourque is real. Check these similar patches from the UD facebook Cup Pack-out album.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=427837228950&set=a.394671708950.177432.61698633950&type=1

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=427935448950&set=a.394671708950.177432.61698633950&type=1

22. In all honestly I think until the card companies step in and start documenting these “game worn jerseys patches” cards, without the support of the companies themselves then all this is speculation, some collectors take extra precautions and some don’t, this business is a “enter at your own risk” business.

23. “NOBOBY CARES about freaking game used except about 1/10th of you repeated post makers who still belive the companies are using true game worn stuff all the time just because its stated on the back. THEY want a tight patch, with a legit auto and #ing”

    I totally agree with this and lately the wording on the back of the card is steering away from “game used” so that means that the patch is not a game worn patch, what makes that patch any more suspect than the one that a faker makes….hmmm.

    I am a Sam Bradford SuperCollector and I have 2-3 fakes with wicked patches (I will never sell them ) but if I were to during the season they would easily draw in 500 bucks easily, and what makes this even more crazy is that I personally know Bradford so I can get him to personally sign these cards….and provide photo (video of him doing it) would that make it more valueable then the companies since….hmmmm!